Breaking the Cycle of Intergenerational Trauma with Serena Wesley
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (00:01.247)
Hi, Serena. Thank you so much for being here today. Oh, I’m so excited to speak with you today. We’ve been really looking forward to this conversation. So yeah, I’m just grateful you can be here and we can get chatting. So can you start by just sharing a little bit about yourself for those who are listening?
Serena Wesley (00:04.434)
Thank you for having me. So my name is Serena. I am Ojibwe from the Sagin First Nation. I’m part of the Bear Clan. My Indigenous name is Gijip Nangoh, which is Little Morning Star. And I work at Healing of the Seven Generations. I’m the program manager slash Veil Supervision in the Desha Chandra program here.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (00:43.431)
Awesome, thank you for that. I’m also wondering if you could share a little bit more about some of the work that Healing of the Seven Generations does here in our community.
Serena Wesley (00:55.822)
So we have, I mean there’s no way I’m to have enough time to talk about everything that we do. We have probably close to like 20 different programs that we run out of our organization. We’re a non-for-profit organization so everything we do is, you know, we have to get grants and stuff like that for. So we have like a youth program where we have a camp in the summertime. We have the backpack program through that. In the summertime we have a canoe day with the justice system where we try to rebuild those bridges between the justice system and the youth. So the youth don’t always look at the justice system in a negative way. So we invite justices, lawyers, correctional officers, police officers, and they’re in plain clothes and they’ll go out in a canoe with the youth. We pair them up and it’s a full day. It’s a really good day.
We have our youth conference that we do as well too, which is usually a two day and we have a bunch of that we run through that and speakers and stuff like that and that’s free to all youth to attend. We have our Women’s Circle and I advocate for that hugely. You don’t have to be Indigenous to attend. It’s every Wednesday night and it’s just a good place for women to come together and you know talk about what’s going on in their lives, what’s bothering them and it brings, it kind of gives them a little bit to you know… peace to their soul to see that there are other women kind of going through the same thing they’re going through. So it really does help them. Every Wednesday we have our community lunch. So everybody from the community is welcome to come to the building and enjoy lunch that staff or a community member has made.
We have, gosh, we have traditional counseling through Dono Dube and we also partner with Louise Byrne. She’s a psychotherapist.
We work with a lot of people in the community to try to get them into healing lodges when they’re struggling. I mean, the healing lodges, cover trauma, they cover addictions. We have a couple of places that we’ll take families in and work with them to try to rebuild those relationships. We really do try to advocate for our healing lodges because we find that the mainstream doesn’t really work for our people. Where the healing lodges, they try to work on what broke you and giving you those skills to be able to move forward and to possibly you know work on your healing journey. Usually we look at it like…
It takes probably about seven healing lodges before you can even really start healing because it’s that it just takes time. So four weeks isn’t going to fix what broke you, but it’s a start. As opposed to putting a Band-Aid on it, it’s trying to fix it. And Skyla and I, we run the court support program, that’s something we work with our people for and we also go to court. We’re both Gladue certified, so we write a lot of Gladue letters to try to support our people and try to get them out on bail into our bail program if we can, if they fall into what we need them to have to come into it. Because we get no government funding through that, so we just run that through the Desha Chandra program.
We work alongside family and children services. So we get called out if there is a file that’s supposed to be opened and they’re Indigenous, we’re called out to try to build a family panel as opposed to going to the route of apprehension. We don’t want our children to be in the system if we can avoid it. So we look at the best way, the safest way to make sure children are in a safe place. And that may still be with their parents but giving the parents the skills and the resources to be able to fix what’s going on in the family at that time. There’s a lot more but I can’t think of everything at the top of my head.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (05:21.681)
No, that’s amazing. Thank you so much. That was a great overview. Yeah, there’s a few things that stuck out to me there. Your work with Family and Children’s Services, I’ve heard a bit about. We had Stephanie on a previous episode of the podcast and she talked a lot about the work she was doing or she had done there and then now as part of the board was doing. So that was really cool to learn about.
Serena Wesley (05:34.936)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (05:45.707)
And I think really important work, so I’m so glad to hear about your partnership with F&CS and how that works. The other thing I wanted to comment on was your healing lodges. That’s so interesting to me and that’s something I’ve been really learning through this series is a lot of the time Indigenous people, it’s really important for them to have their culture surrounding them when they’re healing and that really needs to be a part of their healing journey. So, when you said that mainstream approaches don’t always work, that kind of clicked with me that that’s, you know, what everybody I’ve been speaking to is said to be true. I was wondering if you’re able to elaborate a little more on the healing lodges, like if that is a little more you can share about.
Serena Wesley (06:26.766)
Yeah, so I mean the closest healing lodge we have to us is the one in Brantford. Unfortunately, I mean every healing lodge has a huge waiting list. So, generally when we’re sending people to healing lodges, it’s far away. It’s five or more hours away. We do have a youth one in London, but these places you go there, they focus on what you need to work on, but they also focus on the cultural part of it. So, you know, you may go there, you may get your Indigenous name, you may learn how to make a ribbon shirt or a ribbon skirt. You know, you get to learn those stories, you get to meet with elders, you get to learn, you know, how we did things and how we walk in a good way and how our culture does that. Because we have so many people that come into our building that know nothing about who they are because they were either part of you know, residential school system or they were part of the 60s scoop, just knew they were indigenous, but knew nothing about it. And they really…
You know, find that missing piece of themselves when they can start getting back into culture and just finding that piece that’s always been missing. And they didn’t know it was missing. They didn’t know that’s what was kind of missing from their life. You know, learning about our medicines. Why do we smudge, you know, every day? Why do we, you know, do sweat lodges? Why do we do ceremonies? Like what they mean and, you know, our stories and stuff like that. It’s just it is healing is a part of the healing and, you know, healing of seven generations tries to, you know, we try to help as best we can. We won’t do the work for people, but we will help you walk your journey.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (08:10.707)
Yeah, I love that. I could see why you would feel like you have a missing part of you and why that would be so empowering once you kind of get that piece back and realize what it means to you and your story. So I think that’s really cool. It’s too bad to hear that the healing lodges are so far away though and difficult to access with the waiting list because it sounds like having those more accessible would definitely be a good thing.
Serena Wesley (08:35.15)
yes, yes it would be.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (08:39.005)
I also wanted to ask you about yourself and your personal story. I know we’ve talked a little about this, but I wonder if you’d be willing to share a little bit about yourself personally and your story.
Serena Wesley (08:55.0)
So my mom raised me here in Kitchener. I didn’t find out until the 215 fire, but she attended day school and my grandparents went to the Spanish residential school. I had no idea. My mom was murdered when I was nine years old by her live-in boyfriend at the time.
You know, I’ve always known I was Indigenous. Like I’ve been status since I was younger. I always thought I knew about my culture. And during the 215, just being here at Healing of the Seven Generations, I was a fire keeper and became close with the staff here. And they told me to apply and I did. And I was able to get a job here and just coming in and continuing to learn about like ceremonies and the stories, I came to realize how much I didn’t know about my culture. And I thrive in learning about it. Anything I can learn, I try to share it with people and bring it forward. My mom always said she never wanted me to have her life. That’s why she raised us here in Kitchener. And I never understood that until the 215 because…
You know, she went to day school and the last one closed in 96 while I was born in 77. So I potentially could have went to a day school, you know, so I’m thinking she was trying to protect me from that. She didn’t want me to have the life that she had while she had it. So, you know, I’m thankful she did that for me. But, you know, we were in the foster system for a tiny bit and we went to live with family. But we were, you know, we were in an abusive situation after my mom died with a family member. And then we went to the foster system and then another family member took us and that’s where we were raised.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (10:53.087)
Thank you for sharing that. I’m sure it’s difficult to talk about even all these years later, but I do really appreciate it. I was wondering if for any listeners who aren’t familiar with it, could you elaborate on what a day school is?
Serena Wesley (11:08.322)
So, they had the residential schools and it was a kind of a playoff of the residential school. So, these ones weren’t where you had to go and stay there. So, they sent the children there. They were still run by the churches and stuff like that. But you only had to go, they were closer to the reservations and you went there for the day and then you came home. But they were still treated the same. They were in the residential school systems. A lot of things happened, you know.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (11:33.619)
Yeah, terrible things. And with your mom, I’m so sorry to learn about what happened to your mom. So obviously it was an act of femicide and it was an act of gender-based violence as I understand it too, is that right?
Serena Wesley (11:48.278)
Yeah, I mean, my mom did the best she had me when she was young. She was 17 when she had me and she did her best. My grandmother helped raise me. I was a grandma’s girl and but she I remember like my brother’s dad. We have different fathers. Their relationship was abusive as well to both ways. You know, I mean, I have so many stories. We don’t have enough time, but I could tell you so many stories that you’d be like, my God, you know, and then.
She got into the relationship with this gentleman and there was abuse there as well. It was hidden more than it was with my brother’s dad. But it’s, you know, it’s a cycle. That’s all she knew. Her father was abusive and very abusive. And he passed away around the time I was born. So I never really knew my grandfather. But, you know, I’ve heard stories and, you know, it’s just that’s what they knew. That’s what they were taught. That’s, know, in the schools, they weren’t taught how to live. like, you know, in schools now, they don’t teach you anything. They taught you hate. They taught you abuse. They taught you not to be, you know, that’s something you just learn, learn behavior. And it was a cycle and she stayed in that cycle. So and unfortunately, you know, it cost her her life.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (13:14.119)
It’s terrible. Thank you for explaining that. And I’m imagining it really had an impact on your life and the work that you’ve chose to go into in the field. Is there anything about that you are open to sharing?
Serena Wesley (13:28.622)
You know, when I was little, I always said I wanted to be Wonder Woman. And I did go to school for policing. I just, I found myself in like security mostly after college. And I ended up here doing the job I do. And we are trying to help my people.
And I feel like that’s probably where Creator wanted me to be. This is job, I want to help people and I get to do that. But I also get to try to do that for our people as well too. So and you know, I have that understanding of where they’re coming from. You know, not all of our stories are the same, but they’re very similar. So, you know, it’s, I just want to help people and that’s, you know, what I do.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (14:14.751)
Yeah, and I think it’s such important work. And I think working with someone who’s been through something similar to you, it’s just, there’s something different about it, right? When you feel that the person you’re working with understands your story and understands where you’re coming from. I know it’s just a different kind of connection. So I’m sure you provide that to so many people you support. So that’s wonderful.
I also want to talk a little bit about the intergenerational effects of the residential school system. So obviously this impacted your family. This has impacted so many families and it’s not right. But what I’ve been learning is that the use of traditional ceremonies and cultural teachings has really helps in terms of the healing. Is this something you found in your own life personally too?
Serena Wesley (14:46.254)
Mm-hmm.
I actually do. I I was raised in the Catholic Church, you know, and I mean, that’s how the, you know, our people were taught. Like that’s, you know, you have to do the Bible and stuff like that. you know, over the last few years, and I don’t begrudge anybody their culture. You believe what you believe in, and if that gives you strength, you should believe in that. But I’ve come tomorrow to, you know, turn to our culture and our ceremonies when I need healing.
And I’m still, like I said, still learn like every day. There are new things to learn, but I turn to my medicines when I need it. I turn to our stories. I turn to just our sacred fire. You put your worries and thoughts in there and the smoke takes it up to creator and you ask, you know, you ask for whatever it is you need to, you need help with at that time and I found it’s really helped me. And you know, like I said, I don’t regret anybody. If church works for you, then that works for you. You know, whatever you believe in, that’s everybody’s journey.
I have family members that still go to the church and stuff like that and believe in that and you know I’m happy that they believe in that but for me I find our way a lot more healing like I turned to the earth I turned to the water you know I turned to our stories and it does help me.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (16:38.067)
Yeah, that’s so good to hear. I was raised in the Catholic Church as well and it’s not something I follow anymore. But again, I think to each their own, whatever works for somebody. But I do find it interesting, you know, along our lives and our journeys how when we learn about different parts of the world and what’s out there, we find different things that we gravitate to. And I think that’s really cool when we do have the opportunity to do that because we know not everybody has, especially when we think about the residential school system.
And what that was like. Not everyone has the opportunity that we have to be able to explore and to look into different cultures and different religions and different ways of doing things. So yeah, that kind of speaks to me a bit too, what you’re saying there. I’m sorry, I didn’t put this in the questions ahead of time, but I do have one more question that kind of on this topic.
Serena Wesley (17:28.334)
That’s it. Okay.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (17:33.673)
I’ve been learning more about how a lot of Indigenous communities, you know, it’s a matriarchal society, which is really different, I think, every day about the patriarchy and how we live in it and how we need to combat it, you know? So I’m just wondering your thoughts on that type of matriarchal society. And do you kind of see differences in the Indigenous way of being and doing things because of that as opposed to, you know, more mainstream ways?
Serena Wesley (18:03.854)
Yeah, I mean, I’ve learned a little bit about other cultures and my nation as well, it’s, you know, we never, I mean, you always say you have a chief, right? But there was also, you know, the women were also in charge as well too, right? So can’t have one without the other. And you relied on your people of your community to come together and support each other and take care of each other. You know, we never turned our backs on anyone unless, like, I mean, not to say some people probably were exercise from certain communities, but it had to be serious and you just didn’t think you could help them and it was a safety concern for the rest of the community. But you you got to love whoever you wanted to love.
You’re just a human being, know, nobody looked at you different and if you loved whoever you loved and you know, you were a part of that community. We built each other up. We never knocked each other down. You know, if someone was, you know, out hunting and they did really well, they would share that with the community, especially the people that maybe didn’t have such a good time in their hunting. I think like really everybody should just get back to that. Like we’re always, I find we’re always trying to tear each other down and that’s a colonial way of thinking. Why not try to build each other up as a community?
And help each other as opposed to turning your back or giving a dirty look or giving your judgments. We have no right to judge anybody because we don’t know what they’re going through, we don’t know their story. It’s just trying to help people.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (19:48.957)
Yeah, I agree. And I think it makes me think of your women’s circle that you have too. I really liked the concept of that. And I know you said it was open to all, but is it for women who are going through something in particular or is it really open?
Serena Wesley (20:02.356)
No, everybody’s welcome to come. We have some people that come every week. We have some people that just come when they need it. We do have women from Grand Valley. They have guards that bring them and they attend as well too. It’s a safe place for people to be able to come to talk about what’s going on in their lives, bad or good. And then you eat and then we drum, sing some songs, we close off the night. So, you know, it’s very healing even if you don’t need the healing.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (20:44.701)
Yeah, and I agree with you. I feel like we do need to get back to, you know, those community approaches to everything, but especially to healing. Because I think it’s one thing to try and heal on your own. But when you feel you’re with a group of people who’ve been through something you’ve been through, can be a little more powerful, I think, and easier to heal knowing there’s other people you can lean on and you don’t have it all on your own back. And it’s not all your own struggle. It’s something that other people are carrying too. Sometimes there’s something comforting in that I find.
Yeah, it’s just knowing you’re not alone, right? Like you’re not alone in the fight or the walk, but you have to take those steps too, or want to take those steps. you know, we’re here, we’re here to help. And that’s what we want to do in this building.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (21:19.443)
Hmm.
Yeah. I also wanted to ask you, y’know, as a professional working in the social services, but also from your own experience as well, how do you think domestic violence and gender based violence impacts indigenous communities different than other communities?
Serena Wesley (21:50.742)
I mean…
It’s in the communities itself, like in our community, you know, we have it a lot, but and it seems like it’s not taken as seriously as it would be if you were non-Indigenous.
We have a lot of family members that, you know, they may not be with an Indigenous partner and I find that their charges or their protection isn’t taken as serious as maybe someone that’s non-Indigenous and we see it all the time. Like, it’s a…
We have a lot of people and they think it’s okay, that’s the norm, because that’s what we were taught, right? We weren’t taught any different. So you’re in an abusive relationship, you stay because you think this is how my family was, this is how I am. And we’re all learning that no, that’s not the way and we’re trying to help them get out of those situations, try to avoid sex trafficking and try to avoid, know, try to teach them that no, that’s not normal. You’re better than that. You’re a better person than that. You deserve better than that. And that’s where it comes down to. We try to fix what’s broken them, put a bandaid on it. But it takes tiny steps and it takes a long time for that healing. So it’s something, and that’s why we’ve been here for over 20 years, you know, and we’ll continue to be here. So to help people.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (23:27.825)
Yeah. And I know what the programs, I know you have so many programs at Healing of The Seven Generations, but for your programs, like for example, the youth program or when you go to the lodges, is there a time limit? I know you said like with the lodges, you might need seven sessions before you even get to start to get into a rhythm of it and start to begin that healing process. So I’m curious if your programs generally have a time limit or if they just follow a person’s journey.
Serena Wesley (23:57.996)
No, so it’s, so, a place like Rainbow Lodge, they’re four week sessions. So, it’s residential, so they would go there for four weeks and then they would come back and we’d have to either reapply for them potentially to go back there or to go to another healing lodge. And we have sent a few of our people to more than one different healing lodge because they all have their skills and they work on different things and different parts of culture. And I think it just gives that new fresh, you know, you’re not repeat not on repeats. It’s a whole different program.
So I feel like it helps and it could be that little bit more Skills and coping mechanisms to be able to try to help yourself move forward So yeah, we it’s a process like the applications are a process You need to get medical you need to get you know There’s questionnaires and you got to get them filled out and then we got to get them sent in and there’s an interview process and like I said There’s waiting lists and it’s trying to find the right fit for each person to go to certain places and well you know keeping in mind their traumas and stuff like that.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (25:12.041)
Yeah, that makes sense. When I think about your programs too, I just think how you have such a variety of programs, which is so wonderful. And one of the new ones is the child care centre that recently opened in the region. I have a two-year-old daughter, so I get all the emails about the different daycare centres and I got the email that that one was opening and I thought, this is so cool. Because it’s the first Indigenous child care centre in the region to my understanding. I wondered if you could share a bit more about that.
Serena Wesley (25:37.218)
Yes.
Yeah, it’s, you know, I would like to take credit, but I there’s no credit to come my way in regards to the daycare. But I’m very proud of the employees that have had a part in getting that together and getting that, you know, opened and, you know, to have a place where we start our children from babies in their culture, it’s to try to break that, you know, start that seventh generation, to break that generational trauma where they learn from an early age and they know about our medicines, they know about our stories and they know about why we do certain things, they know the songs to the drum and just learning that gives them a little bit more skill to be make sure that they don’t follow and they break that cycle.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (26:30.269)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think, I imagine it must be pretty cool for parents as well, knowing you can send your kids to daycare from such an early age and they’re already going to be learning about their culture and their background. You know, it’s not all on the parents to do all that teaching. So I imagine that would be really a cool part of it too.
Serena Wesley (26:48.544)
Yeah, and I mean it’s a good opportunity too for even for the parents that haven’t had the culture to be able to maybe learn from their children as well too. Like look what I learned today, you know, this is a medicine pouch, this is why we wear it, this is what we put in it, this is what we use it for, you know, this is why we smudge, like we should smudge our house every day, you know.
It’s seeing the light in the kids while they learn this stuff and even being able to teach that even to their parents that maybe don’t even know, it’s tremendous for our community because we’re starting early to try to prevent what we have to deal with every day and try to make sure they don’t fall on those same footsteps and try to break that cycle of the traumas of the residential schools and the 60s scoops. So, it’s so much credit to the employees that had a big part in that. It’s a very proud moment and hopefully that opens the door for maybe a school or maybe be another daycare. yeah, let’s fingers crossed that’s something we can do.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (27:55.763)
Yeah, it’s so cool. I love even the thought of that, of the kids teaching the parents, like how amazing and healing it could be for a whole family. know, something you might not even think you get out of something as to someone who might seem as simple as a daycare, but it could really bring so much change into a family’s life. So I think it’s really cool. And I think when we think about schools and how we’re supporting our community through different resources like this, we got to think about things like that and think about culture and all the people we have who live here and who would benefit from what.
So, I do think it’s a really cool endeavor too. And I’m glad you have been able to take it on. I also wanted to ask you, so part of She Is Your Neighbor is all about encouraging the community to be good neighbors, especially to women and children experiencing domestic violence. But in this case, I’d like to ask about indigenous women and families experiencing domestic violence.
Serena Wesley (28:32.888)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (28:52.297)
Wondering if you have any tips that you’d like to share how you think we can be better neighbours.
Serena Wesley (28:58.126)
You know, it’s…talking about it and getting it out there and getting stories out there and knowing you’re not alone. You’ve got to be able to support each other. if someone comes to you with something, take it serious. Give them resources. Send them here. Send them to Sask. Send them to any place that’s going to be able to help them to try to get out of the situation they’re in. We have to get out of the time where we’re told to keep quiet about things. about it and the more the information gets out there the more we can be able to provide more resources and be able to help you know men and women and two-spirit people that are in these situations to help them become safe to learn and to know that they’re worth not having that kind of life.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (29:49.119)
Thank you so much and thank you for being here today. Is there anything else you wanted to add Serena before we go today?
Serena Wesley 29:55.564)
Not that I can pick up. Thank you.
Jenna Mayne (she/her) (29:57.087)
Okay, awesome. Thank you so much for being here.
